195. Q&A on Conflict, Confidence, and Connection: Me2We 2025 Part 2

[00:00:00] Matt Abrahams: What is better than getting advice and guidance on how to hone and develop your communication skills from one amazing, knowledgeable guest? Getting that advice and guidance from four amazing guests. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. In our first episode, I asked Naomi Bagdonas, Christian Wheeler, Nir Halevy and Allison Kluger questions about their research along with their thoughts on AI and advice they had for all the leaders in the room. In this episode, you'll hear our panelists answer questions from our audience. So let's get started and let's get learning.

[00:00:45] Well, you've heard from all of us answering questions that I came up with. I would love to hear us answer questions that you come up with. 

[00:00:55] Audience Member 1: So, hello everyone. My name is Carlos Santos. I'm coming from Ecuador. My question is, uh, regard to all of you, especially to Professor Wheeler that talked about feeling uncomfortable. How can we be a bridge in these times of political prioritization? And I think I really want your opinion on this. 

[00:01:13] Matt Abrahams: So how can we embrace that discomfort and perhaps be a bridge to others while there's discomfort at play? 

[00:01:19] Christian Wheeler: Yeah. Well, I think the key is, is to recognize that we as individuals are more than we as our group identities, first of all. Um, you know, I feel there's a large tendency to dismiss or disqualify or whatever the word is, individuals based on our assumptions about what they're like based on some, uh, conclusions we've drawn about their identities. And what the research shows is that when we treat people as a group identity, we are often not receptive to them in the same way that we are if we treat them as individuals.

[00:01:53] And if you can bring that same level of curiosity that you do to other aspects of your life to this individual, wonder why they feel that way, ask them questions rather than try to persuade them, engage with them with a goal of understanding rather than with the goal of changing them, to share your personal experiences rather than to share your political talking points, research shows these are all behaviors that are associated with, uh, what researchers call receptiveness. This type of receptive dialogue makes people more receptive to us as well, and so it often begins with our approach towards engaging with that individual. 

[00:02:29] Matt Abrahams: And I think to add to that also acknowledging that this is uncomfortable is something that that can be helpful too.

[00:02:34] Christian Wheeler: I feel like it's so easy for many of us, it is for me, to in my mind, hold caricatures of the other side, whatever that side may be. But yet I love interacting with people from the other side as individuals when I encounter them. To be able to put those, those categories aside and just engage with that person. But one of the things that we talk about in my class is letting go of things. We often think about things that we wanna add, and this may be a context in which we think about things we might add to make that conversation go better. I would think of things that you can remove. And one of those things you can remove are your expectations about what this other person was going to be like. And these stories that you may have about why they are the, you know, the way you quote unquote think that they are. And when you can put those expectations aside and engage with true curiosity, I think you're gonna have a very different set of interactions. 

[00:03:24] Matt Abrahams: Thank you, Nir, did you have something to add?

[00:03:26] Nir Halevy: Yeah, I would just add that in these conflict situations or potential conflict situations, it's important to rely on a diverse toolbox, right? So we can rely on our identities, our emotions, our relationships, our strategies, our ethics, right? And if we just focus on one kind of bucket in its kind of five types of tools, then it's going to be quite challenging for us, right? And sometimes it's about building a relationship, right? So we're going with relationships. Sometimes it's about bringing fairness to the front, right? So ethics, sometimes it's about planning ahead, right? That would be a strategy. Or regulating emotions that, so if we have a diverse toolbox, I feel that we can rely on a lot of different tools to make it work. And that's important to keep in mind. 

[00:04:02] Matt Abrahams: Very nice. Thank you. So rely on lots of different techniques. Excellent. Thank you. Other questions? 

[00:04:08] Audience Member 2: Adrene Wike. I am currently living in Salt Lake City, Utah. I wanna kind of focus on reputation or maybe perception and how you can help to differentiate when it's you or the room you're in. So, for example, it's taken me a long time to gain confidence and be direct and create this light that I don't necessarily want to dim. So how, how do you figure that out, when it's me or the room I'm in?

[00:04:37] Allison Kluger: It's a great question. It's a different perspective that I'm used to. Usually I just research before I go into any room because it's a higher stakes. My goal is always how am I going to serve my audience, right? So it's not really about my light yet. What I really wanna do is serve their needs and make sure they feel satisfied. So that will be research, asking about the demographic, and even asking what are the expectations. I also will check in when I'm in a room speaking, I'll say, is that clear? Is there a question? And I love when I get pushback on something that someone doesn't agree on or that they're confused. And in the moment I'll be like, you know what? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm gonna research it and add it to my next presentation. 

[00:05:23] So there's a bit of transparency. I think this also dovetails again into what Christian says. I don't go in hoping to be perfect. I go in hoping to make others feel better and enlighten them in some way, but also while being real. Because if I go in somewhere and think, oh, my reputation is riding on this and I better be perfect and I can't slip up, I'm not gonna do a great job. I'm gonna go in prepared, I'm gonna go in knowing what I need to deliver, and I'm just gonna let it happen. So I think don't overthink it, right? Know your worth. Know why you're going in to speak to somebody and think instead about you how can I serve others? 

[00:06:02] Matt Abrahams: I like that question because it opens up reputation to not just be about something that you carry, but it's, it's in the space that you are in as well, and that's an interesting way to look at it.

[00:06:13] Audience Member 3: Uh, my question is actually to Allison and Naomi, uh, both of you, maybe. I have two questions probably and they're combined. The first one is, you know, we all know of fearless leaders, but they're also the ones who are feared. So what I observed in my experience is, yes, reputation precedes you, but organizations are more or less just focused on outcomes and results. And as long as the leader is just delivering those is the reputation goes out of the window to a certain extent at least. So I want to know, is this assumption of mine right or wrong based on what I've heard both of you speak about? 

[00:06:49] And the second question is we also speak about authenticity. And up raising our own authentic self and it's okay to be the nail that sticks out. It's okay to be powerful. It's okay to express, you know, certain emotions, the way you feel it. So sometimes I feel like where I am rising up the ladder, there is a dichotomy to say, okay, which self do I really embrace? And then I understand the reputation, but then what is the definition of this reputation? Are we looking at good, bad? Because it can again, be relative to what every each one of us feels. 

[00:07:20] Naomi Bagdonas: I'd love to start with leaders who are fearless, are feared, and the reason is there's a lot of research that shows that leaders who create psychological safety, who make people feel safe and who don't cultivate a culture of fear are more effective, and especially in the, in the domain of creating environments where joy and levity can flourish. So, for example, research has shown that in a one hour team meeting, if the leader sets a tone such that there is an instance of laughter. One instance of laughter in a one hour meeting, that team is more likely to come up with more creative problem solving during that one hour. We also know that leaders with a sense of humor, by the way, any sense of humor. 

[00:08:01] This is not, my leader has a good sense of humor. This is, my leader has a sense of humor. The bar is very low, which is very correlated with creating environments of psychological safety, are seen as more motivating and admired. Their teams are able to bounce back from setbacks more quickly, and they're able to diffuse tension in those moments as well. And so we, we often see, and again, this goes to this shift from, it used to be that leaders needed to be revered and even feared. And now we're finding that the ability for a leader to create environments that are safe, that cultivate creativity, that cultivate even joy and levity are most effective.

[00:08:40] Allison Kluger: That's great. I agree with everything Naomi said. I'm gonna address the quote, your reputation is like an echo that precedes you, 'cause the second part is, it's also what remains after you leave the room. And so it's a two-parter. And I do think you can go in a room and just do a good job and be fine and your reputation is fine. I also believe that your reputation starts at the first point of contact. So if you're going into a room and you don't know a lot of people, they're gonna make a judgment about you pretty quickly. And they're based on a few things. Again, how you communicate, how you look, do you make them feel good? Are you smart? Are you delivering what they want? And it can lead to a fixed bias. And so you want that bias, whatever it is, to be positive. 

[00:09:24] Now people say, well, how do I know what, what lingers after I leave, 'cause I'm gone. I don't know what's there, but it will show up later in your life. Or even just at, at work, someone will say, you know what? My friend went to that talk you gave and they said, you did such a great job. Here's my card. I would love to hire you for something else. So those murmurs that remain after you leave a room, they have weight and they go to a secondary or a tertiary audience. So I hope I'm answering your question correctly. Go in, be the best version of yourself. And the expectations that we all put on ourself, well, we all wanna do well, that's why we're all sitting here. But think about people reaching out to you after because they've heard good things about your work. And otherwise, I think just go and do your best. 

[00:10:12] Matt Abrahams: I think situational awareness is important behind this question. Different environments have, put different value to different things that augment or detract from your reputation and being aware of what those are. And then making conscious choices, as Allison is talking about, I think is what you just have to see if, if just being really good at closing deals, but alienating everybody else, maybe your reputation is good 'cause you're closing deals, but the, the long-term effect of alienating everybody else might have a downside for you. So I think it's a, it's a calculus you have to do in that situation. And I will simply say thank you to all of you for your time today. Thank you for your support, and thank you to these panelists for sharing their insight and their knowledge with us.

[00:10:57] Thank you for joining us for this special Me2We live recorded episode. Be sure to listen to both episodes for this event. To learn more, please listen to Allison Kluger in episode two, Naomi Bagdonas in episode 13, Nir Halevy in episode 30, Christian Wheeler in episode 18. This episode was produced by Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With special thanks to the Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out FasterSmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering. You can find it at FasterSmarter.io/premium.