198. Pause and Effect: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (2 of 3)

[00:00:00] Phyllis Kao: When you're nervous, I think you feel like everyone's watching you. I have to rush. This is so embarrassing, but time is moving slower than you think. If you need a moment to think, just take a beat. 

[00:00:14] Matt Abrahams: I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. Being put on the spot in needing to respond is incredibly challenging and nerve wracking. If you think about it though, most of our communication is just like this. It's spontaneous. Answering questions, making small talk, giving feedback, fixing our mistakes. Yet most of us have never learned how to speak in these impromptu situations. We created this three part miniseries to help you strengthen your spontaneous speaking muscles. Your coaching team is made up of people whose jobs require them to speak on the spot. Every day to do this stuff for a living. Everything from a game show host to a Sotheby's auctioneer to a UN translator. In our first episode, we covered the importance of preparation and how it can help you get into the right head space, just like how an athlete practices drills before a match. But any athlete will tell you when it comes down to game time, you have to be ready in the moment to adapt to what unfolds. And that's what this episode is all about. We'll be hearing from some coaches you've met before and introducing you to a couple of new ones.

[00:01:30] Agility is key, and the question is how do we perform well when under pressure to speak up in the moment. The answer to that question comes from our first coach. Clearly, some of what you do is planned and scripted, but a fair amount happens in the moment. Can you share a story of a time where you had to adjust your communication in real time? 

[00:01:54] Peter Sagal: Well, it's not so much I can share a moment. I can share any given show that we do. Planning for A and instead, X happening is not only a common occurrence, it's essentially my job. 

[00:02:07] Matt Abrahams: Wait, wait. If you're listening and thinking, hold on, I know that voice, you're probably not imagining it. It's Peter Sagal who's been the quick witted host of NPR's weekly news quiz show, Wait, Wait...Don't Tell Me! for over 25 years. He's the guy who makes the news fun. And as you're about to hear, he knows a thing or two about staying sharp in the moment. 

[00:02:31] Peter Sagal: Our show is unique in a few ways. First of all, we're an ensemble show. I'm a guy on stage with other people, three panelists, one judge, and scorekeeper, sometimes a special guest. And we're all talking together. And, and, and what that means is that any moment, any one of those people could derail what I'm out to do, right? We do write a script. I have very talented colleagues with whom I research and write and rewrite a script. But what makes my show different is we then take that script and I have to be ready at any minute to throw it out. In fact, one of the things that we see as a failure on our show is if I were to do all the jokes written in front of me, and the panelists don't really chime in. Because we're very fond of the jokes. We wrote them, we worked on them. But if it's just me talking, then it's not our show. Our show is a conversation. 

[00:03:23] Matt Abrahams: The thing that you said there that I think is so important for others who find themselves in situations where they have to respond is that preparation is key, but being willing to let go of that preparation and follow what's happening and needed in the moment is really important. And in fact, you optimize and, and that's how you're defining success. I find it interesting that you feel you wouldn't be successful if you actually got through the script. And that's an important mindset and approach I think many people can adapt. 

[00:03:54] Peter Sagal: Yeah, you have to be present. I think that is the key to anything like what I do for a living, is to constantly work on, as Ramdas told us, being here now and being attuned to what's happening. Being attuned to the possibilities of what the future may hold, where this could go, steering it toward the choice that you prefer, you know.

[00:04:15] Matt Abrahams: So we know that being present enough to adapt in the moment is critical to being a good spontaneous speaker, but that skill is more complicated than it sounds. It requires both reading the room and reacting to others in real time. Let's have one of our previous coaches, FBI, negotiator, Chris Voss, break down that first part. 

[00:04:37] Chris Voss: Everybody's got the voice in their head, probably from their mom going, you got two ears and one mouth. You should listen twice as much as you talk. Well, it's really five X 'cause you got two eyes. You gotta gather data with your eyes and you gotta actually pay attention to what you're seeing. There's this really smart guy, extremely successful entrepreneur that I'm coaching now in negotiations. He's telling me the other day, he says, as soon as I start saying, I know how you feel, I can see people shutting down. So what does that mean? Even when you're talking, you gotta be paying attention to what the impact is on the other side. Now it seems a little overwhelming when you first start doing it. But then when you start discovering things, it's delightful. So you, you gotta be careful about the prescriptions. Listen five times as much as you talk, that doesn't mean you're sitting there with your mouth shut. You know, you gotta be listening with your eyes. You gotta be pulling in information. You gotta be seeing the world in color instead of black and white. 

[00:05:34] Matt Abrahams: And it's really about the understanding that what you are saying or not saying has an impact in that moment on what's going on. In the same way that we can listen with more than just our ears, we can also communicate with more than just our words. Our next coach explains why that can make all the difference when speaking to an audience who comes from a very diverse array of backgrounds, something she does on a daily basis of her work. 

[00:06:01] Phyllis Kao: Eight five with Cassandra Hatton at eight million five hundred thousand. It's not yours Charlotte. It's back with Cassandra at eight million five hundred thousand. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight Cassandra. Eight million seven hundred thousand. At eight million seven hundred dollars thousand now, 

[00:06:22] Matt Abrahams: Phyllis Kao is a Sotheby's auctioneer who knows how to engage a room full of people from all around the world. Here's how she does it. You often work with people from a variety of different cultures. Any thoughts on how to communicate clearly when language and experiences differ among those you're interacting and communicating with?

[00:06:43] Phyllis Kao: Yeah. Story of my life really. I grew up, you know, multicultural and lots of different languages swirling around me at times. I find through all of that, I have noticed that I'm a very careful listener and I really value enunciation. And I think, let's say you're speaking English and you're speaking to a myriad of people with different cultural backgrounds. If English is their second or third language, enunciation makes such a world of difference to them. I feel like a lot of people don't, don't realize that. That can be so, so helpful to a big crowd of people that come from different backgrounds, if you can be sensitive to that. If we're truly, literally not speaking the same language, I find that body language, gesturing, context, facial expressions, can say ninety percent of what you need to say or what you need to convey. And I think what a lot of people go to, you know, a new country, foreign country, and they don't speak a language you can infer a lot. You can guess a lot just through those elements.

[00:07:48] Matt Abrahams: So what has been helpful to you is to really focus on some of these nonverbal cues and clues, how we say the words we say, what we do with our body and our posturing can really help. So as a speaker to those who are not native in the language I'm speaking, if I am mindful of the annunciation, the body posturing and movements that can really serve to help me get my point across. And it's certainly not surprising that somebody who does what you do for a living would be focused on those elements. And clearly you do a very nice job of it just based on our interaction. 

[00:08:23] Now that we've explored the complex ways we take in and convey information, let's talk about how to put those skills into practice to truly connect with the audience as we're speaking with them. To show us how, former FBI negotiator Chris Voss breaks down two powerful techniques, mirroring and labeling. I'd like to get into, if you don't mind sharing some more detail about two specific skills that you mentioned earlier. You mentioned labeling and you mentioned mirroring. Would you mind taking a moment to just share what each of those skills are and, and the value they bring to you and the work that you do?

[00:08:59] Chris Voss: Uh, the value I bring? 

[00:09:00] Matt Abrahams: Yeah. The value of, of labeling and of mirroring. 

[00:09:04] Chris Voss: Right. So I just mirrored you. 

[00:09:06] Matt Abrahams: Oh, there you go. 

[00:09:07] Chris Voss: And, well, because it feels natural to hear it. Marrying is repeating, generally, the last one to three-ish words of what somebody has said or selected, one to three-ish words. It could be one word, it really shouldn't be more than five, and it's just repeating them word for word. The other side, what they hear is, oh, okay, you got what I wanted to say, but he needs a fuller explanation. It's actually much more effective than saying to somebody, what did you mean by that? Because if you say to me, what did you mean by that? I'm gonna repeat what I said before exactly only louder as if you were hard of hearing, right? 

[00:09:49] And what you really needed was, I need you to go deeper, reword, expand, add to your thoughts. And when people first start using this, it feels so awkward. You'll get used to it by practicing. And it's incredibly effective, 'cause I just gotta say three words on the other side will talk for ten minutes. But I know some people, that's the only thing they do, 'cause they want the data, they want the information. Now the labeling is just slapping the label on the dynamic or the emotion. It's an observation. It's a verbal observation of an emotion or a dynamic or, or a hidden dynamic. And the important thing about a label is it's gotta be a dynamic the other side introduces.

[00:10:36] Matt Abrahams: So in both cases of mirroring and labeling, you're doing a reflection. Sometimes it's literally the words they say, but other times it's putting a word and reflecting what they said. What's interesting to me is how important the way in which you say your mirror or label plays out in it. So it's not just the words, it's the way you say those words. So that combination of nonverbal presence and the verbal presence matter in this. 

[00:11:02] Chris Voss: Yeah. You are feeding back the dynamic and so tone is like the rifling on a bullet. Now a bullet comes out of a barrel and there things inside of the barrel of a gun, whether it be a rifle or whether it be a handgun called lands and grooves that actually spin the bullet, so that when it comes out, it goes in a straight line. It's the same thing as when you throw a baseball, you spin the ball. A baseball pitch with no spin is called a knuckle ball. And that thing goes all over the place and nobody knows where the hell it's gonna land. And so that's the same reason they put spin on bullets, so they hit the target. And so for your words to hit the target tonality is effectively the spin. 

[00:11:44] Matt Abrahams: Just as tone gives our words direction, Phyllis tells us how the speed at which we speak can add its own kind of spin, shaping urgency, energy, and engagement.

[00:11:56] Phyllis Kao: I think ninety percent of the time when I tell someone, especially in the US, that I am an auctioneer, they say, oh, do you speak really quickly? Can you talk really fast? For fine art, we do not speak that quickly. I can speak pretty quickly, but I'm not required to in most instances. We actually want to give a bit of time. But we do use our speech and our speed in speaking and our speed in, in facilitating the auction to create and to maintain and control pressure and drama, and that kind of energy, to, to spur someone to act now, you know, to act now or, or forever hold your peace. We want to create those kinds of intense moments because that, of course encourages people to bid. 

[00:12:44] Matt Abrahams: So you're using your speaking rate and intensity to draw people in and and create a sense of urgency. And I think all of us can be looking for those cues and clues. While those listening into our conversation, likely won't be doing high stakes auctioneering. They might be in situations where they are under pressure in the moment to respond. What advice would you give people to become better speakers in the moment? 

[00:13:13] Phyllis Kao: One thing that is rarely mentioned is taking your time. If you feel nervous, if you're stumped on the spot, you always have time. Just take a moment, find the real answer. I'm someone who's against filling the silence with filler noise or with filler words. I like a statement that ends, and I'm not afraid of a beat of silence rather than, you know, ums and ahs and, and these sentences that trail off into nowhere. If you need a moment to think, just take the moment. You know, when you're nervous, I think you feel like everyone's watching you. I have to rush, this is so embarrassing. But time is moving slower than you think. Just take a beat. And if you can fill that beat with some movement, a smile, um, some eye contact, it will help you. 

[00:14:09] Matt Abrahams: I love that the advice is about slowing down and using your full body to communicate. So gesturing, not being static, not filling the, the space and allowing for the, the pauses to sit really can help.

[00:14:24] Phyllis Kao: I think when people are nervous and they feel like they just have to keep talking and filling the silence, they often veer into saying something that they regret later, you know? 

[00:14:37] Matt Abrahams: Uh, I know in my life that's very true. 

[00:14:39] Phyllis Kao: Silence is preferable to that. 

[00:14:42] Matt Abrahams: For Chris, slowing down also gives you the time to connect more deeply with the person you're talking to and be more present in the moment.

[00:14:50] Chris Voss: You know, if you just take your turn. I mean, there's, there's, there's so much of an advantage while you're speaking to slow down a little. Let the moment play out. If you slow down to be more connected with somebody in the moment, to hear them, to make 'em feel heard, to actually analyze what you're hearing, you give yourself time to analyze in the moment and think, you're gonna be a much better communicator.

[00:15:18] Matt Abrahams: When I'm teaching my students, we'll often look at case studies to better understand and apply the skills we're learning. So here's our first case study for you. One of the most common real world situations where people have to think on their feet is introducing someone, whether in a meeting, during a presentation, or even a casual conversation. To learn how we turn back to our coach who has spent countless hours perfecting the art of introductions. Here's Peter Sagal. You do a lot of introducing on the show to your mind, what makes a good introduction? 

[00:15:51] Peter Sagal: So I do do it a lot. You're right. Every week I do at least four introductions. I introduce the panel, right, to the audience, both the live audience, and then on the radio. I introduce Bill Curtis again to the live audience and on the radio. And then I introduce our special guest, often I'll do that twice too. Here's the secret, people think that the focus of an introduction should be the person you're introducing. I wanna make this person feel good. I want to say that this person has all these important qualities. If you asked me to introduce my friend in a meeting, I'd think, okay, how can I make my friend happy? But here's the trick, you shouldn't think about making your friend happy. You should think about making the audience happy. So in other words, you guys are so lucky because I've got this person, this person for you. That's the internal intent, right? And that affects everything in terms of the words I choose to introduce them, how I choose to describe them. But even more importantly, my attitude. And not only lets the audience know that this is a privilege, this is a present, they get to see this person just based on my attitude, but it also lets the person I'm introducing know what I think of them. 

[00:17:08] Matt Abrahams: I really like that you're introducing not just the person, but the experience that you want the others to have of that person. And the way in which you focus your attention, not on the person, but on those you are introducing them to, help you make that, yeah, experience possible. But introductions are just the first step. Once you've set the stage, the real challenge is how you engage with somebody in conversation, especially when you admire them. How do you show appreciation without making it about yourself? How do you make the moment feel special for them, not just for you? To explore that we're diving into another case study with Peter. This time about the art of being gracious in conversation. 

[00:17:54] Peter Sagal: There is an absolute human urge when you're with somebody to think that the way to make them happy is to perform for them, to give them things, which usually, and this is particularly true of men, men, to offer your own thoughts and your own perspectives. Sometimes you think to yourself, well, I'm gonna make this person happy by explaining to them at length exactly how much I appreciate their work. I understand the urge. You can tell yourself, well, what I'm doing is I'm telling this person that I understand how great they are and specifically why. But then this is where you get into trouble. What you're really trying to do is show the person that you're special, that they should like you just as much as you like them. That's not a gift, even if you think it is, because what you're showing them is how much you appreciate them. 

[00:18:50] What is a gift is to let them express themselves. What is a gift to show that interest in them by being genuinely interested in what they have to say about this, that or the other thing. And if you happen to be talking to an artist, be attuned and understanding enough about their art, that you can take that understanding about their art and instead of mentioning it just to show that you noticed it, ask them about it. So for example, I noticed that you know, when you're playing this role, you have a tendency to do X. That struck me as really smart. And where did that come from? The best way to be gracious is to turn the attention as much as you possibly can to them.

[00:19:32] Matt Abrahams: Okay. So our coaches have shared some advice and taught you some skills. Now it's your turn to take this advice and put it into action. At the end of each of these miniseries episodes, we'll be giving you some homework, a couple of ways you can try to implement what you've learned in your real life. For this exercise we're bringing back Brad Rogers, an NFL referee, who is also one of our coaches from the first episode in the miniseries. If you haven't yet listened, we encourage you to go back and check it out. In it, we hear from Brad and a few other of our incredible coaches on how we can prepare to speak spontaneously. But when it comes time to finally talk on the spot, there's a crucial skill Brad practices to stay sharp and present.

[00:20:20] Brad Rogers: I think one of the things that is the most important part is the active listening portion. I find it easy to let my mind at times jump to an assumption of what the foul might be on the field, and I'll give you an example. If my back judge who's back with the defense, if they throw a flag, most of the time, the high probability, is there's defensive pass interference. And although the percentages may be high and my mind starts going, hey, they've probably got pass interference. I need to slow down and let my mind stay clear because they may come in with offensive pass interference. They might come in with illegal contact, defensive holding. There's a several other things that that could possibly be.

[00:21:02] So I don't want to cloud my active listening by what I assume it could be. I have to keep my brain clear and my ears clear, so that I know what they're going to say, so I'm not enforcing something that isn't about to happen. You could start to go down a path of not listening, and you start to think how I'm going to enforce a foul that never happened. So listening to understand versus listening to respond are polar opposites of one another. And active listening is something that I work on every day, and it's to listen, not be prepared for a response. Be prepared to know what I will say next once I hear all the information. 

[00:21:46] Matt Abrahams: I just wanna point out to our listeners something that I find fascinating. Brad, who is a professional referee, whose job is to speak and declare rules and violations of rules, says that one of the most important things we all need to work on is listening. Listening plays a critical role, and the reason why, and I think you're exactly right, is when we begin to respond in a patterned way with what we think has happened, rather than what has really happened, we eliminate and reduce our ability to respond, what's really happening in the moment. And I really appreciate you highlighting that.

[00:22:26] So there you have it. The best advice from our team of coaches on how to adapt in the moment to what's unfolding around you. In the final episode of our mini series, our coaches will share what happens when things go wrong and how to make those moments into gold. Thank you for joining us for our second episode of three in our spontaneous speaking miniseries. To continue learning more on how you can become a better spontaneous speaker, please tune in to our final episode, which will feature more exciting coaches and all their tips and tricks. This episode was produced by Aru Nair and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anything's and more at fastersmarter.io/premium.